Military See Presidential Race Through Own Lens

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NANCY BENAC | July 1, 2008 06:01 PM EST | AP

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Jim Morin, a West Point graduate who served as an Army captain in Iraq and Afghanistan, poses with a 2003 photograph of himself meeting with Afghan village elders in Khost, Afghanistan, during an interview with the Associated Press at his home in Arlington, Va., Thursday, June 26, 2008. Morin said he thinks Obama has the most "comprehensive solutions to complex problems" in Iraq and Afghanistan. "I have a lot of respect for McCain," he said. "Everyone in the military is going to tell you that." But he adds: "I don't think he has anything new to offer. His mind-set is really stuck maybe in the Vietnam era, and the conflicts we're facing now have nothing to do with Vietnam." (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)

WASHINGTON — Brandon Ziegler served two tours in Iraq and wears a bracelet inscribed with the name of an Army buddy who never made it home. Jim Morin saw action in both Iraq and Afghanistan and has lost several friends to the war in Iraq, the latest just a month ago.

Both say their choice in the 2008 presidential election is clear: For Ziegler, it will be John McCain; for Morin, it will be Barack Obama.

Those viewing the presidential race through the lens of military service can see it entirely differently: The desire to quickly get out of Iraq is balanced against the hope to see the country stabilized; respect for one candidate's storied military history is weighed against another's relative youth; concern about the war's drain on the U.S. Treasury is measured against the wish for expanded benefits for new veterans.

Sizing up the candidates as the nation prepares to celebrate Independence Day, retired Command Sgt. Maj. Ronald Friday in South Carolina laughs and predicts "it's going to be an interesting summer." Put him in the undecided column.

McCain, with a family tradition of military service and his own history as a Vietnam prisoner of war, holds natural appeal for members of the military and for veterans. An AP-Yahoo News poll conducted last month, found that veterans favored McCain over Obama 49 percent to 32 percent, while the two candidates ran about even in the population as a whole. Three-fourths of veterans in the survey thought McCain would be a good leader of the military, compared with one-fourth who thought likewise of Obama.

Nonetheless, dissatisfaction with the course of the war under President Bush and with the treatment of veterans returning home has given Obama, who did not serve in the armed forces, an opening with military voters and veterans. So does his appeal to younger people.

That Obama attracts support from some in the military is evident in dollars and cents: Among people who have donated at least $200 to a presidential campaign this election cycle, Obama has collected more than $327,000 from those identifying themselves as military personnel, while McCain has collected $224,000, according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission data by The Associated Press.

But it is in the voices of recent veterans and, to a lesser extent, of those still serving in the military, that the McCain vs. Obama debate comes alive _ although most active-duty personnel are loath to air their views publicly because they are discouraged from mixing in politics.

Friday, who retired last year after serving as the top command sergeant major at Fort Jackson in South Carolina, said he doesn't want either candidate to take his vote for granted, based on his race or his career.

"I don't want anyone to think that because he (Obama) is of the African-American heritage that he automatically has my vote, or that McCain will get it because I was in the military," said Friday, who is black.

Friday, 49, added that he understands what McCain meant when he said the United States could have troops in Iraq for 100 years, but he doesn't necessarily support the statement. Still, he predicted, "We will be in Iraq until death do we part."

Such talk rankles Sgt. Kenyon Ralph, 24, of San Diego. Ralph, a Marine reservist who served in Iraq twice, is a member of Iraq Veterans Against The War, and is backing Obama.

Ralph, who once was a registered Republican and twice voted for Bush, says he gradually turned against the war and now can't bring himself to vote for someone who supports keeping troops in Iraq.

"What did he say? One hundred years or something," Ralph said of McCain. "We've got five down and 95 more years to go."

Sgt. Maj. Brent Dick, a 35-year-old career soldier stationed at Fort Bliss in Texas, hasn't decided whom he'll vote for in November, but he agrees with McCain's stance on Iraq.

"I favor staying there until we are done with our mission," said Dick. He said the candidates' plans for Iraq will be one deciding factor in his vote but the weakening economy also is a huge concern.

Dick, who served in Afghanistan, said McCain's military service and his time as a prisoner of war are pushing him toward the senator from Arizona.

"I think that means something for their character," said Dick, interviewed as he and his 8-year-old son got ready to play golf on a recent afternoon at the Fort Bliss golf course.

Not far away, standing outside his off-post home after work, Darrell Warren, a 41-year-old staff sergeant at Fort Bliss, said he's also on the fence, but leaning the other way.

"I'm a Democrat," said Warren, who served three tours in Iraq. He said that while the war will be an issue for him in picking a president, he doesn't see military service as a must.

"They don't necessarily have to have served in the military to know about it," he said.

Ziegler, interviewed in the library at Kutztown University in Pennsylvania after attending a night class, sees three reasons to vote for McCain entwined in the Republican's military service: He connects to McCain as a war veteran, believes it makes sense during wartime to have a president who's served, and says McCain's POW history speaks to the quality of his character.

As for Obama, says Ziegler: "He's new and he's young. He's got what seem like new ideas. I don't think now's the right time for that, being that we are in Iraq."

By contrast, Morin, whose 10 years in the military included four years as a West Point cadet, thinks Obama has the most "comprehensive solutions to complex problems" in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also said he was disappointed by McCain's opposition to an expansion of the GI bill that would offer full military scholarships for those who serve three years in the military.

"I have a lot of respect for McCain," says Morin. "Everyone in the military is going to tell you that." But then he adds: "I don't think he has anything new to offer. His mind-set is really stuck maybe in the Vietnam era, and the conflicts we're facing now have nothing to do with Vietnam."

Richard Topping, a former Army legal officer who spent more than five years on active duty, said McCain's military record is impressive, but he finds the senator's open-ended commitment to Iraq troubling.

"I care far more about the economy, which has me leaning left this election," said Topping, who works as a Justice Department attorney. "Time for new people and new ideas here in D.C."

McCain has plenty of brass speaking out for his candidacy: While active-duty military personnel are expected to keep out of politics, more than 100 former generals and admirals have endorsed the Republican candidate.

Richard Kohn, a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill who has studied the gap between military and civilian attitudes and culture, said that while members of the military, particularly the officer corps, in recent decades have favored Republicans, the enlisted force is much more politically balanced. And Kohn said there are signs that "the shine has probably worn off the Republican brand to some degree among the military," in part because of discontent with Bush over foreign policy and veterans' issues.

In what may be one sign of the trend, individuals who identified themselves as members of the uniformed services have donated 38 percent of their dollars to Democratic candidates, party committees and leadership PACs so far this election cycle, compared with 22 percent during the 2000 campaign overall, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based group that tracks political campaign money

___

Associated Press Writer Kimberly Hefling, AP database editor Troy Thibodeaux and AP News Survey Specialist Dennis Junius contributed to this report from Washington. Also contributing: Associated Press Writers Susanne Schafer in Columbia, S.C., Chelsea Carter in San Diego, Alicia Caldwell in El Paso, Texas, and Kevin Maurer in Wilmington, N.C.

 
 

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- ibsteve2u See Profile I'm a Fan of ibsteve2u permalink

"And Kohn said there are signs that "the shine has probably worn off the Republican brand to some degree among the military," in part because of discontent with Bush over foreign policy and veterans' issues."

And maybe it just became too difficult to reconcile reality with the propaganda machine that this Administration turned AFRTS into...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 07/02/2008
- PoliJunkie See Profile I'm a Fan of PoliJunkie permalink

I have a cousin who was a Sgt. in the Marines for over 20 years (retired now), for many years he was a Repub. He has a son who came to age and joined the Army. Upon joining the army he was immediately shipped off to Afgan. This young kid has done 3 tours already in Afgan. My cousin who had so many Republican beliefs and military woo-rahs is now looking forward to Barack Obama becoming our next POTUS. He has apologized to the family many times for changing his political stances. Just goes to show you not all in the military is so fooled by this Administration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 PM on 07/02/2008
- BPCentrisAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of BPCentrisAmerican permalink

I know 2 Iraq war vets one Marine the other Army both severed 2 tours in Iraq. After 2 tours in 2003 and 2005 the 24 year old Marine is attending a state university and trying to move on with his life, although he brigade could be called up again, the army vet whom I do not know as well is in the same boat, both are Obama supporters.

The McCain campaign"s phony outrage over West Clarks comment, rings hollow. The campaign went after Webb over his comments on Count Down, which is even delusional. Webb is right, McCain dose not have a lock on this vote, because he is a Veteran, maybe if he would work more on their behalf, endorsing Webb's GI bill would have been a great place to start, other than Bush's phony recognition, that was a disgrace and that was the reason Webb appeared on Count Down, not Clark"s comments. Why vote for a veterans program when the President is willing appear in the Rose Garden and lie by saying you did.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 07/02/2008
- bbbear See Profile I'm a Fan of bbbear permalink

Obama's latest actions seems to indicate that he understands he must past muster of the Ultra Billionaires who own the Military/Industrial complex, as well as the generals who run it for them. ( Hey, even CIA is directed by a four star general. )

That is, the US Military, Big Corporations, and all branches of US government are one and the same, and essentially now run by Generals who are in turn work for its Ultra billionaire "owners." Yet, it also seems some "owners" aren't happy with the latest turn of world events. They seem to want a change.

So, IMO, if Obama can fully prove that he's "patriotic" and will continue feeding the Military/ Industrial Complex, while still appearing to improve the lives of the working class, as well as appeasing the workers of the world, then the "owner's" will swing,the media fully to Obama.

Still if old war mongering McCain can convince the "owners" that he has the moxie to achieve the same thing as Obama, while continuing policies some "owners" no longer find as useful, then POTUS elect is his.

I prefer Nader, but since he can never get an electoral vote, he can't be elected. Besides, a vote for Nader is simply a vote for McCain.

And until We The Sheeple eliminate the Electoral College, replacing it with the popular vote, no one such as Nader can ever be elected.

I guess I'll still vote for Obama and another 10 years in Iraq.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 07/02/2008
- ElIngeniero See Profile I'm a Fan of ElIngeniero permalink

Nader? elected? to what? Animal Control Officer in an Appalachian rathole town someplace, for sure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 07/03/2008
- Insideout143 See Profile I'm a Fan of Insideout143 permalink

Well, I guess military "experience" is not a requirement as a candidate, since even amongst those with that experience, there are any number of views on how the war in Iraq should be handled, and who is right and who is wrong on their proposed policies on war. Whatever experience any in the military have had, it is limited by their own experience, and not broad enough as they only have that individual experience to judge by. There's much more to the decision-making with regard to war, than what someone experiences while they have been involved directly in a war. That's what we need to be looking at, which candidate has the wherewithal to consider all of the available history and current information, and based on that, to make wise decisions regarding war policy.

I have looked, and Obama is my choice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 07/02/2008
- Msohio See Profile I'm a Fan of Msohio permalink

We are one military family for Obama. A donation from our family to barackobama.com is another commitment that we make monthly. Just can't rationalize contrived wars where military lives are just collateral damage. So many of us forget that Iraq was not a legitimate cause.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 07/02/2008
- Scarllatti See Profile I'm a Fan of Scarllatti permalink

Thank you for your service to our great nation. All my gratitude!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:45 AM on 07/02/2008
- FilthyPerson See Profile I'm a Fan of FilthyPerson permalink

"In what may be one sign of the trend, individuals who identified themselves as members of the uniformed services have donated 38 percent of their dollars to Democratic candidates, party committees and leadership PACs so far this election cycle, compared with 22 percent during the 2000 campaign overall, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based group that tracks political campaign money"

So WTH does that mean? "...donated 38 percent of their dollars to Democratic candidates"
That was very awkwardly phrased, but was the point that 38% of all political donations from the military go to the Dems?
So then the rest go to Republicans or some other party.
Was the point that it was 22% 8 years ago?
And to you guys you think that means in 8 years it'll be over 50%?

AP and Huff wants you to think that I guess, but things don't work that way here where you guys fear to tread.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 07/02/2008
- osage See Profile I'm a Fan of osage permalink

I've just tried to make two posts that were rejected for bad words. One had the word frag in it and the other had no word that could have been interpreted as "bad". Bad how? Bad to whom? There is no difference between the "word" police and the "thought" police no matter how you spin it. Who is monitoring this blog? The Department of Bushland security?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 07/02/2008
- marymansour See Profile I'm a Fan of marymansour permalink

I gotten th that recently when the words weren't bad at all. This filter seems to be over reactive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 07/02/2008
- ThermoChemist See Profile I'm a Fan of ThermoChemist permalink

I experienced the same problems (again) today. I reviewed the text and saw absolutely NO bad words. I then spend the time removing words/sentences that could possibly be "misconstrued" as potentially "bad" and the warning message still appears. As a result: context of the originally structured comments is getting changed AND the ENTIRE message itself gets deleted (instead of remaining to be edited).

I understand the need and desire to improve the site; but this is getting increasingly frustrating!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 07/02/2008
- FilthyPerson See Profile I'm a Fan of FilthyPerson permalink

Did you use any proper names?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 07/02/2008
- Jamchinadian See Profile I'm a Fan of Jamchinadian permalink

Ah - is that the key? Let me try this - with no context - Fowler, Hutchinson.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 07/02/2008
- bygollymissmolly See Profile I'm a Fan of bygollymissmolly permalink

The people who are serving in our military now know that they are not there for some noble cause, but to try to steal Iraq's oil. So, naturally they are turning on the party that put them in harms way just to make money for some fat cats. I imagine most military families are also going to vote Democratic in the next election. Why would you vote for a party that has exposed your son or daughter to the threat of being tortured if captured? I can think of NO reason why anyone close to the military would vote Republican after what that party has done to this country and to the military.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 07/02/2008
- somekid1234 See Profile I'm a Fan of somekid1234 permalink

GET THIS ON MSM...CNN, NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 07/02/2008
- FilthyPerson See Profile I'm a Fan of FilthyPerson permalink

"From AP today ... grudging and snarkily ...

"The White House sees the progress in a particularly positive light, declaring in a new assessment to Congress that Iraq's efforts on 15 of 18 benchmarks are "satisfactory""almost twice of what it determined to be the case a year ago. The May 2008 report card, obtained by the Associated Press, determines that only two of the benchmarks"enacting and implementing laws to disarm militias and distribute oil revenues"are unsatisfactory."

GET THIS ON MSM...CNN, NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC

Yeah right. That's not gonna happen. Not as long as the MSM is a wholly owned subsidiary of the DNC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 AM on 07/02/2008
- bygollymissmolly See Profile I'm a Fan of bygollymissmolly permalink

Yeah right. That's not gonna happen. Not as long as the MSM is a wholly owned subsidiary of the RNC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:05 AM on 07/02/2008
- wayoutleft See Profile I'm a Fan of wayoutleft permalink

adulation from the troops on his coming visit will juice up his coming tacit endorsement of the iraq occupation nicely. immediately after he clarifies he has no real intention of ending the occupation on any moral objection to colonial conquest of smaller countries, he rolls into the hysterical, worshipful convention, which obliterates discussion of his iraq policy switch. nicely done david axelrod.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 07/02/2008
- Scarllatti See Profile I'm a Fan of Scarllatti permalink

Have a little confidence in yourself. All is not gloom and doom. GWB has been affecting a lot of folks. Take a look at that light at the end of the tunnel, if you will.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 AM on 07/02/2008
- catzoned See Profile I'm a Fan of catzoned permalink

I hope the light at the end of the GWB tunnel are not the lights from the bombs on Iran.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 PM on 07/02/2008
- bygollymissmolly See Profile I'm a Fan of bygollymissmolly permalink

And your reasoning for this is what? Is it something that Obama has said or done?

I will withhold judgment until such time as I see him saying or doing something different than what he is saying and doing now. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that I will not judge him without proof like you are doing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 AM on 07/02/2008
- wayoutleft See Profile I'm a Fan of wayoutleft permalink

props to your honesty and civil sensibility. i'd really like to be wrong; but i know "which way the wind blows" (c) dylan. on his ipod.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 07/02/2008
- jeanrenoir See Profile I'm a Fan of jeanrenoir permalink

Jim Morin's comment highlighted at the top in the article says it all: In the military, like everywhere else, this election is about generational change. It's appropriate that McCain's great claim to fame come from Vietnam. LIke Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, McCain's stuck in a time-warp. Obama's much more in touch with the 21stC world, in military affairs as elsewhere. Morin's right on target. McCain's a paper tiger, and the Obama camp has a long line of military people to make that clear to the American public. Clark was only the beginning. Soon, it will be obvious to the public that Obama is a better FIGHTER now than McCain, strategically as well as toe to toe.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 07/02/2008
- JulieSA See Profile I'm a Fan of JulieSA permalink

"McCain's stuck in a time-warp. Obama's much more in touch with the 21stC world,"

Obama is gradually changing his Iraq policy to match McCain's, because of the undeniable progress that's been made.

Just so you know, this is what's coming. The Obama campaign is trying to finesse this as best it can so as not to freak out his supporters, but he knows that his promise of immediate timed withdrawals just isn't workable. McCain was right and Obama was wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 07/02/2008
- ComnCents See Profile I'm a Fan of ComnCents permalink

To a small boy with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

To a small boy that is commander in chief, everything looks like a war.

Mac Clone actually believes that big problems are solved by killing the bad guys.

Fortunately, most people in the military know better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 07/02/2008
- Scarllatti See Profile I'm a Fan of Scarllatti permalink

JoHn Wayne, Yee haaa!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 AM on 07/02/2008
- loax See Profile I'm a Fan of loax permalink

I wish that the soldiers would see that McBush is stuck in Viet Nam in his mind, and has never gotten beyond his time as a POW. I respect his military service, but that alone does not qualify him to be POTUS. I feel he will have a hiar trigger finger, and will start bombing the first country that does not agrre with him! No more warmonger in the White House! OBAMA 08!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 07/02/2008
- adavis08 See Profile I'm a Fan of adavis08 permalink

Another thing Wesley Clark was right about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:13 AM on 07/02/2008
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